AURORA: Let’s start with a brief background about 7th Sky Entertainment, and what it is that you bring to the table that is different from other production houses.

ASAD QURESHI: 7th Sky is about making a change in the media landscape. We have been in this business for a very long time and we have seen almost all the verticals in the industry. We started 7th Sky because we felt that no one else was making content that was resonating on an emotional level with audiences.

A: Almost any production house will say they are making content that resonates with audiences. What is different about your content?

AQ: When we started in private TV productions, hardly 10 or 12 dramas were being made, and of these, two to three were made by us. Life was way simpler then because we did not have social media and the multiple platforms that exist today. In those days, ratings were a debatable topic andn no one bothered much about them. Then the satellite boom happened, and all of a sudden, audiences were exposed to narratives produced in India, the UK, the US and elsewhere – and those narratives were based on a fusion that combined emotional resonance with an objective, whereas in Pakistan, we were stuck in the usual saas-bahu narratives. But now Pakistani audiences could evaluate us based on what they saw on satellite TV. Producers like ourselves were no longer competing with Pakistani content, we were competing with foreign channels as well.

ABDULLAH KADWANI: After the invasion of satellite TV, there was a monopoly of Indian content, and Pakistani audiences were hooked on Zee TV, Star Plus and Sony. It was a glued viewership. It was a cultural invasion and it was done very smartly. For example, Pakistani children would use words like bhagwan or other concepts stemming from Hindu culture and values. This was when we realised that unless we started to produce content that resonated and engaged not only with Pakistan audiences, but had a global appeal, we would not be able to progress further.

A: You mentioned content with an objective. What do you mean by that?

AQ: A plotline. For example, when we made Meri Zaat Zarra-e-Benishan, we received a lot of appreciation not only from Pakistani audiences but from India and elsewhere as well. It was about how people would take an oath or swear about a truth by placing their hand on the holy Quran. It was a very courageous topic and the more conservative elements in the audience questioned why we were bringing up such topics in a drama series. Yet, this happens every day in households. Our story was about a woman who swears on the holy Quran that another woman is having an extramarital affair and as a result, the life of the accused woman is ruined. This was a completely new narrative in Pakistan. With Meri Zaat Zarra-e-Benishan audiences realised that narratives could be different. It was like opening a door. Audiences had moved away from local channels and were watching foreign channels like Zee TV, Star Plus and Sony. Now, all of a sudden, we were giving them dramas based on the realities of life and it resonated with them. That was when we realised there that the most important thing is for a narrative to have an outcome.

A: An outcome?

AQ: The story should contain a message. For example, if someone is trying to oppress or hurt a person, we will show the outcome – the person doing the oppressing is eventually punished. It can also be about women’s empowerment, workplace harassment, tolerance…

A: Wasn’t it a bit risky to move away from the ‘saas-bahu’ norm?

AQ: I am not saying that we have moved out of from that norm. When you deal with 60-plus episodes, you can’t reinforce one aspect only. It is like a structure. A structure built on family values, family connections, and marriage-related issues. If, for example, the central thread is women’s empowerment, we will mix it in along with other storylines.

A: Do you receive any pushback?

AQ: We do, and this is why we keep things subtle – your coffee may be bitter, but you can add sugar.

AK: It was challenging because we were touching upon subjects that were considered taboo – and which no one else was touching upon. But we knew that to enter the international arena, we could not shy away from these topics, although even now, there are subjects that we cannot touch. It was risky; we did not know whether it would be commercially viable. In the beginning, advertisers did not take us seriously; they did not believe we could compete with Zee TV and Star Plus.

A: Why would you go to advertisers?

AQ: Our industry is funded by the ad industry, and a lot of the time creativity is lost; sometimes you have to deliver the sort of content advertisers want, and you are stuck. When we approached advertisers, we tried to make them understand that we really had to end this cultural invasion. Then we made Meri Zaat Zarra-e-Benishan and that was the start.

A: Give me a sense of the ecosystem you work in.

AQ: In the earlier days, the ecosystem was very different. If you were to ask me today whether we have more freedom to do different things, the answer is yes, for the simple reason that in those days our entire content was judged on TV. Now, the same content is available on different screens across different platforms. Before that, our audience was restricted to Pakistan, but today audiences span the UK, the US and India; people are watching the programming on YouTube. Earlier, channels had only one revenue stream and took limited risks. Today, they have a wider audience and are willing to consider braver storylines.

A: Do you still work with only one channel?

AQ: Right now our relationship is exclusively with Geo. All major producers have exclusive relationships with a channel. Making dramas is a process and takes a minimum of 12 to 18 months, so it is important that the producers and the channel align their strategic objectives. You also have to build up learnings with the channel in terms of what works with their audience profile.

A: Overall, have audience preferences evolved?

AQ: There is a difference in preferences but it is not a massive one. Pakistanis are very patriotic; they are very passionate about their religion, their values, and their social systems. There is change but at a slow pace. Has it affected our storytelling? Yes, it has. For example, we will feature a Gen Z girl in a mother-daughter relationship. We incorporate the challenges Gen Z daughters face, perhaps in terms of what they want to do, like we did in Jhoom. When we look at global audiences, we cover issues such as long-distance marriages. But the changes are not massive for the simple reason that there has not really been a massive change in media consumption habits. Only the screen has changed. In fact, even among traditional audiences, housewives have moved away from TV and gone over to YouTube and other platforms.

AK: Tere Bin is the most watched drama in the history of Pakistan; it garnered four billion plus views internationally. It has become a global phenomenon. We are in the billion views club. If you take the top 12 most-watched Pakistani dramas, we have produced eight of those. We are the only entertainment company that has produced a drama with views of four billion plus and three billion plus respectively. This is a big achievement. We have given a voice to our audiences and an identity to Pakistani dramas.

A: In the long term, what will be the role of TV?

AK: TV is dying whether we accept it or not. The big change happened during Covid. At the moment the split between TV and digital is 50:50, but it will move to 70:30, as digital and other streaming platforms take over.

A: Is the move to digital creating new opportunities?

AQ: It is full of opportunities. Earlier, we had only three to four channels to sell to; now there is the opportunity to monetise on the digital platforms. The barriers to entry have come down. Today, anyone can make a video and upload it. The demand for content will keep going up; every second or third month, a new platform comes on-stream. For example, 7th Sky has partnered with a Turkish channel. They have dubbed our content in Turkish and are airing it right now. Pakistani content has suddenly become an attraction. Before we heard about Pakistani channels airing Turkish content, now it is the other way round. And I am not talking about one drama; I am talking about 500 to 600 hours of content. This has been going on for the last two years; Turkish channels have taken content from other production houses as well, but 85% of the content comes from 7th Sky. It is a very exciting time for producers. Globally speaking, Korean content is number one and in the Asian market, Pakistani content is number two – these are facts based on data.

A: Why doesn’t Pakistani content feature as much as Indian content on Netflix?

AQ: Syndicated Pakistani dramas have been rerun on Netflix. Indian content on Netflix is original content made for Netflix, so there is a difference there. The content Netflix is investing the most in globally is Korean. But yes, everyone is looking for that golden bullet.

A: Will there be a golden bullet for Pakistan?

AK: Netflix will come big time in Pakistan. They don’t have a choice because Pakistani dramas are so big.

A: How would you describe the talent you have access to when you produce a drama?

AK: We are investing a lot in talent and Pakistan is super talented.

AQ: Script editors and content department teams are very sought after resources. Sometimes writers have an amazing idea but turning it into a screenplay can be challenging for them. We are a vibrant industry. From an HR perspective, it is also a very competitive one. We have an amazing set of people we are very proud of.

A: Overall, what kind of support does the industry require to flourish further?

AK: There is no support. Whatever we have done, we have done it on a self-sustained basis. We have invested out of our own pockets. It was our passion and obsession that made us take risks.

AQ: We struggle in terms of taxes; in terms of the confusion as to who should be paying them or not. We still struggle in terms of censorship challenges and clear-cut policy frameworks.

A: What kinds of policies?

AQ: For example, unlike India, royalties do not exist in Pakistan; this is very discouraging for creative people. We need a more collaborative spirit so that the industry is looked at as a vital component in building Pakistan’s image. Our productions get Pakistan’s narrative across to global audiences. We promote tourism in the country by shooting on location; we are also foreign exchange earners when we export our content.

AK: Dramas are Pakistani ambassadors. People’s attitudes have changed because of them. Earlier, people only talked about Indian content. Now it’s about Pakistan and that is a big achievement for the industry.

Abdullah Kadwani and Asad Qureshi were in conversation with Mariam Ali Baig. For feedback: aurora@dawn.com