AURORA: How did your music career begin?
Arshad Mahmud: On PTV. Possibly I was the first person to sing and play the guitar there. When Akkar Bakkar started, I was 21 and I had no ambition. I just wanted to be a regular, normal kind of person. Until one day, Shoaib Hashmi asked me (he used to see me in college playing the guitar and trying to impress the girls by singing film songs), “Are you going to spend your entire life doing this or are you going to try to do something else that will tax your mind a bit?” So, this is how I started. The first song I wrote for a programme was Rawalpindi Se Aayee Rail, Naam Hay Iss Ka Khyber Mail. Everybody liked the song, so I got into a routine. As Akkar Bakkar came on weekly, every week we would do one or two new songs. The programme ran for about four quarters, and I must have written about 50+ songs for children. Then we started Such Gup, a version of Akkar Bakkar for adults. The programme ended with one serious song by Nayyara Noor. That was the Such element. The rest was the Gup. In 1975, we started Taal Matol. Shahid Toosi and I worked together on it. Well, he would do more and I would do less, but when he left, I had to do the composing. That was when I began doing serious stuff, and my friends and my team started taking me seriously.

A: Why did you join EMI?
AM: I have to make a confession. In those days, like most youngsters, I was of the mind that I had to choose a field and have a proper job, and that music was not a field, just a pastime. So I joined Prestige Communications as an account executive. Then Mansoor Bokhari, the Managing Director of EMI offered me a job as sales manager. At the time I thought, “I’ve done it!” So I joined EMI and stayed with them for 17 years. Then in 1993 I realised it was all a waste of time, that I should have been more serious about my music. I resigned in 1993 and started doing music and music alone.

A: Wasn’t that a big risk?
AM: Yes. I usually don’t consult my family about anything. This time I did. I talked to my children and told them things would be harder. When you work in the corporate sector, you get all sorts of perks and benefits, and you get used to that. But I was lucky. What sustained me throughout those years was the advertising world.

A: What were the campaigns you worked on?
AM: I still remember fondly how I xeroxed Boney M’s songs for a construction company because the owner loved Boney M. He thought there couldn’t be any music better than that. So I did a lot of Boney M work and made commercials out of those songs. When Candyland was introduced, it had a kind of style, which it still retains, and I still enjoy listening to the soundtrack of those commercials. The last piece of commercial music I enjoyed doing was with Orient McCann Lahore, where we worked out the musical logo for Nestlé Milkpak Khalis hee sab kutch hay. Although I must say that most of my good stuff has been projected, in my view the musical aspect in our commercials isn’t well thought out.

A: Why?
AM: Music is a medium of expression. Music is my medium; I express myself through my music. You can make any statement through music, provided you know the craft. It’s just like copywriters who can develop great lines because they know how to get to them. There are important ideas expressed so badly they have no effect, and then there are frivolous ideas that, when well expressed, have communicative quality. They touch your mind or your heart. Music has the same kind of power, but we don’t use its power. For instance, there was a commercial for a toaster where the toast pops out. You can actually create music for that, but because that wasn’t the case, the visual was bland. It’s one of many examples of commercials where the visual is well thought out, but the soundtrack isn’t. Once I was working with an advertising agency on a campaign that was liked by the client. Then, one of those global tie-ups took place with a foreign advertising agency, and the account shifted to another agency. The new agency felt they had to produce their own work, rather than use the previous agency’s, so the work I did was lost. It’s a frivolous reason but this is how it works. Now with multinational affiliations, the themes are developed elsewhere and you just have to make a kind of Pakistani version of it. They will adapt the visuals, but most of the time they will use a music track developed elsewhere.

A: Do you feel that clients give music its due or do they tend to underrate it?
AM: The power of music as a medium of communication has been, by and large, ignored. Sahira Kazmi and Schahzad Khalil are two directors I’ve worked with very closely, and I’ve enjoyed doing it. The same goes for Hameed Haroon. They make a kind of a musical image in their mind, and if I can’t get to that, then I don’t know my craft. Unfortunately, it is a collaborative art. We have to work together like a well-oiled machine. When this happens, then you come up with something really good. Take the recent Dawn commercial for example. We had a long discussion about how the longer version of the track should end. As it ended on a very high note, Hameed wanted to change it. I said “don’t”. That is the surprise element because you are expecting something to happen and it doesn’t. We had a long discussion, but I stuck to my guns. But then there were certain suggestions he made, which I thought were very good. It’s a collaborative art. Everyone has to believe in each other and trust each other’s judgement. Many composers prefer to say, “Okay, thank you, goodbye. I’ve got the brief; see you tomorrow.” I love having people around me when I am composing and I never discourage suggestions because, you see, nobody can steal my glory. Only I can accept what I feel is right, and if I feel it’s not, I try and convince the person who has made the suggestion that it isn’t right. It’s not a question of trying to lead but of the whole team thinking and developing something together.

A: Do you find your commercial work satisfying?
AM: I’ll tell you what. When you say that Khalis hee sab kutch hay, it is a line that has a totally different kind of a feel. You see, you are driven by a thought, which may or may not be expressed in words. For instance, if you want people to dance to your music, then you try and do things that will make them dance. But when you are trying to make a serious statement, the music for that must have a totally different kind of feel. I don’t find that my commercial work clashes in any way with my more serious work because the thought process is there in both. What I do is to try to illustrate the feelings in my music, whatever the feeling is. So if it is Khalis hee sab kutch hay then I try and bring that out, and if it is serious poetry then I try and do that.

A: What needs to be done to encourage a better quality of music in commercials?
AM: I don’t know how to convince people to do this. I have tried to convince people in the industry to increase their rates, because if you’re paying Rs 10,000 for a soundtrack, that reflects how much importance you attach to it. If the client is paying Rs 100,000, then the people working on the project will make sure that the end result is the right thing for the commercial. Unfortunately, advertising in Pakistan is not a quality-driven market. It is a price-driven market. Anything that is cheap will sell more than quality. In my days at EMI, pirated cassettes were cheaper than the ones we produced because ours were of a better quality. We imported the tape and took extra care in the quality. Yet, people would buy the cheaper cassettes; they didn’t mind if the sound quality was not that good. This attitude basically pervades the overall market. Multinational and corporate executives may be very pompous about what they are doing, but at the end of the day, they may settle for the cheapest thing available, which does not really reflect very well on them, but unfortunately it’s like that.

A: What training do young musicians get?
AM: Many youngsters ask me about how to go about becoming good musicians. The most important thing is to have an aptitude for music, and that doesn’t come easily. It’s rare to have that kind of talent, where one can really become something. Yet, musical aptitude alone will not ensure that you will be a great musician, because in our field one has to be the best; there’s no place for second best. I’ll give you an example of a friend of mine. He’s an excellent singer, but because Mehdi Hasan was there, there was hardly any place left for him. It’s like applying to join the air force. You’re sent to Risalpur for training. After six months you receive a letter saying you don’t have a flying aptitude and you are sent home. In spite of this, there are probably about 500 pilots in this country who can fly an F16. But there is only one Mehdi Hasan. Young musicians need to be told that they have to do it for the joy of it, initially. I’m not trying to scare them, but this is how it is. One needs to have more people in this field, from where outstanding musicians may emerge. But the training system we have has not worked really.

A: What exactly is the system?
AM: The ustaad. There are many people I know, at least in Karachi, who are getting formal training in music, but nothing is happening. Not many musicians have come up because talent has to be identified at a very young age, at the school level, so that the child can be placed in the right environment. When I was young, I didn’t think of music as a career to be pursued. It was only after 17 years of wasting my time at EMI in marketing that I realised I had to make music. We have to somehow elevate this field. Music is a segment of the liberal arts, but painters are not looked down upon as much as musicians are because of the two schools, the NCA (National College of Arts) and the Indus Valley School of Art & Architecture (IVA). Parents are proud when their child gains admission to the NCA. More and more people are going into graphic design or painting or sculpture or architecture, because these fields have been elevated. Unfortunately, in our country, music has not been elevated.

A: Has PTV played a role in trying to elevate music?
AM: PTV could do a lot but it has fallen flat on its face. PTV has not been able to encourage new talent. Although you see new faces, not all of them deserve to be there.
There is only one reason why an artist will go to PTV. To become popular because his or her face will be seen. The ones who are already popular want to go further, but PTV doesn’t give them that opportunity. After a while, they’re ignored. For instance, if you’re a ghazal singer, well, that’s the end of it. There’s no room for development, and you don’t even get to see too many ghazals on PTV. You don’t see Alamgir anymore. PTV created Alamgir and others like him. Mohammed Ali Shehki, the Benjamin Sisters, Humaira Channa. All were created by PTV. But after PTV has created you, it ignores you; it doesn’t follow or go along with you for the longer distance. Now, there are newcomers entering, but once they become popular, PTV will ignore them, and this has continued to be the practice over the years.

A: Unless you’re an Iqbal Bano or Farida Khanum?
AM: That’s precisely it. Iqbal Bano, Mehdi Hasan and Ghulam Ali were artists long before television came along. They were there because of a totally different discipline. Now what was the system that produced these people, and what is the system that has not produced even a single person of the same calibre? There has to be something wrong somewhere. Certainly, the main body of the music-listening public is teenagers. But this doesn’t mean that a person who is 30 has stopped listening to music. One has to think of those segments, which I wouldn’t call small because that segment is huge in its own right, but yes, it’s not as big as the teenage market. It seems PTV has stopped thinking about that segment, yet these are the people that will rush for tickets to an Iqbal Bano concert, which means there is a market and an audience out there.

Interview conducted by Reema Abbasi.

I first heard of Ali Mumtaz three years before I met him. I knew him as the art director from San Francisco who occasionally wrote for *Aurora and once made my life miserable in the process because he wanted his article printed upside down and I had the unenviable task of getting his page designed by a graphic designer who wasn’t particularly thrilled at the prospect.

His articles, however, if they could be called articles – for they were mostly cartoon strips and doodles – were entertaining not just because they were different, but because his message was quite universal, in that no matter which part of the world you work in, there will always be a clash between clients and creatives.

Apart from his articles, Mumtaz was the subject of a great deal of discussion among my colleagues and I. Here was a Pakistani who was working as an art director in a world-renowned advertising agency, Y&R, and we were impressed, if a tad curious, about his achievements.

Suffice to say that at least in a limited sense, Mumtaz’s reputation preceded him. I had this image of him in my mind as an elegant older man, possibly in his forties with greying hair at his temples. My excuse for this entirely misconceived notion was the rationale that he had to be an older guy given his position at Y&R.

Thus, when Mumtaz walked into the Aurora office one morning earlier this year, I was in for a surprise. For starters, he turned out to be quite young – late twenties or early thirties; quite good-looking – in a fair-skinned, dark-haired sort of way; with an interesting tattoo on the inside of his forearm and no grey hair in sight!

Mumtaz’s greatest advantage stems from the fact that he realised what he wanted to do early on in life. His father worked in the marketing department of PIA and would bring home ads that had been done by the creative agency, which at that time was IAL.

Mumtaz was interested in what he saw and wound up doing an internship at IAL working with big names such as Naseer Haider, Faraz Maqsood Hamidi, Cyma Zulfiqar Saeed and Sarmad Ali.

His experience at IAL, he recalls, was a mix of proofreading, running for cups of tea and just hanging around to see how advertising was created and executed. His first break came on a rat killer product when he made some “absolutely horrible sketches, but Faraz [Maqsood Hamidi] saw the potential in them and incorporated some elements into the print ad.”

In this way, Mumtaz worked on and off for IAL for three years in the early nineties, until he decided to study communication design at the Indus Valley School of Art & Architecture.

The course fell far short of his expectations because art direction was equated with graphic design, and he says that the former is about so much more than just graphics. With this in mind, he applied to a few schools in San Francisco and eventually decided on the up-and-coming Academy of Art.

After completing his degree, his first job was with an agency in SF called Ozone, which believed in ethical advertising. The agency closed down soon afterwards and Mumtaz moved on to another agency which specialised in high-tech advertising and paid him lots of money to do “absolutely sh** work”.

Six months into the job, he started looking elsewhere and finally landed at Y&R as a junior designer.

As he rose through the ranks at Y&R, from junior designer to art director, Mumtaz worked on several accounts, including Chevron Aviation, Dr Pepper, McAfee, Palm and Seven Up, but remembers Adobe and Hitachi with special fondness.

The challenge with Hitachi, he says, was to stand out in a sector where all the other players were running 300-word ads. The idea was to play with a visual that was so simple that everyone could understand it. Fortunately, the marketing team at Hitachi was quite gung ho about the idea and kept running the ads, much to the benefit of their sales graph.

With Adobe, the challenge was even more difficult: to do interesting advertising for a product that was being used by creatives all across the world but didn’t do great ads for itself. The solution was a series of cryptic ads (when Adobe went on the web in 1999), which Mumtaz says was a lot of fun.

Another ‘fun’ account was MGM, but “that was mainly because of the regular trips to Las Vegas.”

But work, or at least commercial work, is not the only thing that occupies Mumtaz’s time. A strong believer in giving back, he has done his fair share of pro bono work, which, quite apart from the high it gives him, is also good when “you want to do something very creative and groundbreaking, and you just can’t sell it to a paying client.”

His pro bono strategy has certainly paid off, and his most memorable ad is one he did for JBL with Amean J., which earned him a Clio and appeared in CommArt magazine.

“It was a really simple ad, a bloody Q-tip, but it appeared in CommArt, which is huge, because they narrowed it down to a few hundred from over 30,000 entries.”

Another way of giving back is via teaching new creatives and Mumtaz is part of the faculty at the Academy of Art in San Francisco.

Talking about his teaching experience, he says it is “really satisfying because you get to keep in touch with what young people are doing. As much as advertising needs experience, it is also a young person’s business because that is where the crazy ideas come from.”

And whether he likes it or not, advertising is a way of life for Mumtaz – his wife works as an account manager at Goodby Silverstein and Partners, so the creative versus client management debate rages on at home.

Outside advertising – in the very little time he has spare – Mumtaz enjoys playing cricket with a multicultural team of Indians, Pakistanis, South Africans and Thais.

My interview with Mumtaz ends with some discussion about his future – he has no idea what it holds because everything in advertising is changing, “especially the TV spot. The big thing is how you convince someone to like your ad so much that they will pass it on to 50 other people” – and about his tattoo.

“I have a lorem ipsum tattoo – it is dummy text, and it is used until something better comes along, which is what I am waiting for.”

Six months after my interview with Mumtaz, I am told that he has left Y&R and is currently working as a freelance art and creative director. Although he responds to my email and insists we meet up when he is in Karachi next, he neatly sidesteps queries about his reason for leaving the agency.

Is he planning to continue in the freelance vein? Is he going to move to another agency? Is his profile picture on Facebook, half submerged in water with a scuba diving mask, indicative of the fact that he is unwilling to reveal more than is necessary? Many are the questions I still wish to ask the man from San Francisco.

AURORA: What led you into advertising?
Zohra Yusuf: I was always interested in writing. I came to Karachi after my graduation, and at the time the city was new to me. A friend who was in advertising suggested I apply to a few agencies, the ones which were then known for the quality of their work, and she particularly recommended MNJ. So I applied to MNJ as well as to a couple of other agencies and Javed Jabbar called me for an interview… And after that, I guess I was hooked. I joined as a copywriter trainee; I later became creative manager and then client service manager. I spent 10 years there before I thought I’d had enough of advertising and went into journalism by joining the Dawn Group of Newspapers.

A: How did you find journalism?
ZY: Actually I was appointed editor of the Weekend Star, and at that time it was in total conflict with what I would have liked to see in a newspaper or even in a magazine section of a newspaper. They were basically printing poster-sized pictures of film stars. I didn’t think I would last as I was told to just ‘carry on’ with the same policy and the same kind of look because apparently it sold. It took me about three months to make the transition and eventually change it around. I joined in June 1981, and in January 1982 direct censorship was replaced with a system of ‘press advice’. For example, ‘advice’ would be given regarding not publishing a particular story or item. We were also supposed to exercise self-censorship. If you thought that a particular column or reference would not go down well with the military government, then you were expected to delete it. What happened after direct censorship was lifted was that we were able to bring in more writers and better-known journalists and turn the Star into a more political newspaper with political comment, etc. However, all time we were treading a very fine line between what would be acceptable and what would not be. In those days, the Weekend Star was distributed with Dawn up north, and many bureaucrats in Islamabad thought that it was a part of Dawn, so Dawn would often get into trouble because of what the Star was publishing. But then the information minister or the information secretary or other members of the Cabinet would often show the Star to foreign journalists, pointing out that “you say that there’s no freedom of the press but look at what is being published.”

A: What made you go back to advertising?
ZY: Well, after the first six months or so I did begin to enjoy journalism but then there were different kinds of pressures. I think I ultimately felt I couldn’t cope with self-censorship. It’s alright when there’s somebody outside censoring you, but when you have to censor your writers yourself, either through internal or external pressures, I found that very hard, so I decided to go back to advertising.

A: Coming to advertising, as a creative director what does the word ‘creative’ mean to you in an advertising context?
ZY: In an advertising context it will always be limited because it is determined by the marketing brief. Creativity in this context is dependent on the ground realities, like what is the competition; what are the sales targets; what are the attributes of the product; and who the target consumer is. The challenge is to be creative and original within those parameters. I think that’s the exciting part of advertising: to be noticed in a very competitive environment and meet the needs of the product and the client.

A: What do you think of the trend in Pakistan whereby very often it is the client who dictates the creative approach to a campaign?
ZY: There are two things here. Obviously there is a client brief, and sometimes suggestions also come from the client. First of all, we do have to meet their marketing brief. You can’t create something in a vacuum, come up with something creative and say this is great. So while keeping that in mind, at Spectrum we encourage our creative people to do something original. It may not have everything that the client wants but at least the agency is in a position to present the client with another option, and sometimes the client goes with it. Secondly, not all clients dictate to the agency. I think this happens more with larger accounts or when there are global campaigns. But yes, at times there are clients that impose their ideas, and unfortunately, at the end of the day, because we’re a business, we can’t say we won’t do it.

A: How much pressure does the client service department put on the creative director to fall in line with the brief that comes from the client?
ZY: At Spectrum, none. Here the emphasis is tilted in favour of the creative department. However, by and large, I think the balance tends to be tilted towards appeasing the account managers because they are the ones who are bringing in the business.

A: Do you think this is a good thing?
ZY: I don’t think so. I think creative people need the space to think, develop and create without being pressurised. But from the account management perspective, it’s easier to find out exactly what the client wants because then it will be easier to sell the campaign to the client. However, in the long run, clients will begin to wonder why they have an advertising agency if the agency is just producing exactly what they tell them to. Clients begin to feel that this being the case why don’t they simply hire their own designers and supervise them themselves. So, at the end of the day, by always doing exactly what the client says, the clients themselves begin to feel there is no value coming from the relationship with the agency.

A: Is there much competition among the creative directors of different agencies in terms of the quality of the work they are producing?
ZY: We obviously look at which agency is producing what and how creative or not so creative they are, but I don’t think there is a sense of competition that there are creative parameters or standards that anyone feels they should meet. Each agency wants to do something that is different and original, but I don’t think they are inspired or challenged by what another creative director has done. Here, the tendency is more to be inspired by what’s being done outside. In the seventies and eighties our inspiration was the West and agencies tended to use a lot of foreign models. Most of the commercials were made in English, and the settings were geared to an upmarket and Westernised feel. Now we seem to be getting more Indianised, and commercials seem to be following the trend of Indian commercials. They’re bringing in humour and characters that are not necessarily glamorous but more down to earth.

A: Generally, do you think Pakistani agencies are creative?
ZY: No, I don’t, but I think that’s a criticism that can’t be restricted to the advertising agencies only. In terms of the visual arts, apart from painting, where you see some original thoughts and ideas, we tend to be followers, whether it’s television, cinema or advertising. We were following the West at one time, and now we seem to be following India, and the same applies to television programmes and stage shows. I think it’s a lack of motivation, of competition, and of recognition. Unlike their counterparts in India, most creative people in advertising in Pakistan are not bothered even when they get a PTV or a PAA award.

A: Why?
ZY: Because they suspect the whole system of judging. The way the system is structured is very antiquated. For example, APNS has the same old categories, like best copy, best visual, best black and white ad, and best colour ad. In most other countries, they go by categories like household equipment and financial advertising, and then these categories are further subdivided into print, audio-visual or the overall campaign. The same applies to the PTV awards. They have categories like the best 60-second jingle. You can’t just judge a commercial and decide that the soundtrack deserves an award but not the entire commercial. The whole process needs to be better integrated.

A: What do you think of the new generation of ad people?
ZY: They certainly like to experiment more; they’re certainly more open to ideas, but I think they lack direction. If there was a good training institute, perhaps you’d get better results, although the Indus Valley School of Art and Architecture is producing a fairly good crop of people. But again, I think even their curriculum needs to be improved so that the students are better fitted to the needs of the market. I feel they work too much in a vacuum and it’s good in a way that they are able to develop their creative abilities but it has to be tailored to more fully meet the demands of the market.

A: Would you agree that advertising agencies don’t put in much creative effort in developing the soundtracks for their commercials?
ZY: By and large, clients tend to go more for jingles. You often have clients who tell you, even before the concept has been developed, that they want a jingle. In general, commercial music as a thematic soundtrack is not taken seriously. There are some exceptions, like Spectrum’s commercial for Morven Gold, ‘Rhythm of Unity’ which was a fusion of the music of the four provinces. It had no commentary ; it was all based on the music and movement of the dancers and the choreography. Many years ago, MNJ shot a commercial for the Sun newspaper which just showed Sohail Rana’s hands on the piano. The music was an original composition by Sohail Rana, and superimposed on the keyboard were various aspects of the Sun’s coverage. The theme of the commercial was ‘The age has a rhythm and the Sun has a pace.’ It was a one-minute commercial, and it was totally music-based.

A: What were the defining characteristics of advertising in the seventies? ZY: In the early seventies, television was still an elitist medium, so most of the commercials that you saw were westernised in terms of their concepts. The models wore Western clothes and the language was mostly English. Over the years, this has changed. There is more and more Urdu in terms of language, and there is now something pretty awful; a mix of English and Urdu. What would you call it, Minglish? Again, that is something that is probably inspired by Indian television. I think in the earlier years there was more emphasis on concepts. Now, possibly because the environment is more competitive, everyone is in a hurry and there is less time to develop concepts, so conceptually we are weaker than what we were, but in terms of technology we are stronger. What we produce now is far more slick, especially print advertising, where we have certainly improved.

A: Why is it that compared to Indian commercials, which are often irreverent and full of humour, our commercials are so very staid?
ZY: It’s something cultural, I think. We don’t really know how to laugh at ourselves.

A: Do you think that the standard of creative work in Pakistan is compromised because most advertising agencies are run by businessmen rather than creative heads?
ZY: Having worked there, I don’t want to keep on reverting to MNJ as an example, (although unfortunately MNJ itself was not able to sustain the creativity it achieved in the earlier years), but if you look at the history of advertising in Pakistan, one person who would stand out for creativity is Javed Jabbar. Today, perhaps it’s easier for a smaller agency to be creative. When you have giants like Lever Brothers or Philips, it’s very difficult to be creative, because a lot of their strategies are developed internationally at the corporate level. Also because of their size, they are able to dictate and it is very difficult at certain levels to resist that. I think it’s easier for smaller agencies like The D’Hamidi Partnership, for example, to do something different and provocative. It will be interesting to see if the smaller agencies will be able to sustain their creativity as they grow. Even larger agencies find it easier to develop good creative work for their smaller accounts.

A: Apart from Javed Jabbar, who would you say are the people that have made an impact on creativity in Pakistan?
ZY: Mahmoud Sipra for one. He was responsible for developing the first Lyla commercials for Lawrencepur. That was in 1970-71, and Sipra featured these models wearing flared bell-bottoms, which he filmed on a train. He did a lot of trendsetting commercials and introduced a lot of different shots, wide-angle shots etc. In terms of graphics, I would say Imran Mir and Tannaz Minwalla; a lot of people are following the kind of layout and the use of typography they developed.

A: And the major influences on the business or account management side?
ZY: I would say SH Hashmi and Taher Anwar Khan.

A: Is the poor representation of women in the higher echelons of the profession an industry problem or a gender problem?
ZY: I think it’s more of a gender problem. I don’t think there’s anything that’s keeping women down as such. For some reason, they haven’t either wanted to take up the challenge or haven’t been efficient enough.

A: In terms of clients, who are the ones that have had a positive impact on creative advertising?
ZY: I think as far as Spectrum is concerned, certainly Mohammad Farooque Textiles, mainly because they’ve always had this requirement that no models should be shown. Consequently, one is pushed into doing something different and their advertising stands out. If you look at the lawn commercials that came out this summer, you’ll notice that they are all very similar, and you really can’t tell one manufacturer apart from another. In the case of Mohammad Farooque, in spite of the fact that they haven’t advertised in the last few years, people still remember their commercials. In fact, the last commercial we did for them was shortlisted at the London International Advertising Awards, and it also won the Aurora Award for print in 1992. The commercial made its mark because it just hints at a woman’s presence without actually showing her. Another client would be Peek Freans. In the early seventies, Peek Freans adopted the Pied Piper, a concept introduced by MNJ, and which is now integral to their communications strategy.

A: Any other commercials you would consider groundbreaking?
ZY: I would say the Sun commercial, which I described earlier. Apart from the fact that the client gave a lot of leeway to the agency, the Sun was the first newspaper to advertise in both the electronic and print media. Morven Gold’s ‘Rhythm of Unity’ was another example because it depicted Pakistan’s culture through its folk dancers and its music without ever showing the product. We had to do this because cigarette advertising is not allowed on prime time, and the client wanted to run the commercial on national days during prime time. This commercial was also groundbreaking in that after it was released, it had a lot of imitators. Another groundbreaking commercial would be the recent one made for Standard Chartered Grindlays, which featured a grandmother riding a motorbike. That was groundbreaking, and I wish it would also be trendsetting.

A: Why trendsetting?
ZY: In banking there’s a lot of stereotyping, and banks don’t seem to want to show women in their advertising, They want to show them shopping, but they don’t want to address women because they believe most of their customers are men. And here, in the Standard Chartered Grindlays commercial, they show somebody totally unlike their target customer, and I thought that it communicated the proposition very well, that anyone can have a credit card, even this elderly grandmother who is driving a motorbike. The concept came through very well and I think it takes courage both on the part of the agency and the client to go ahead with something like that.

A: Have you ever thought of opening your own agency?
ZY: No. Firstly, I’m not passionate about advertising. To me it’s a profession. Secondly, I’m very possessive about my personal time. I like to have a lot of time to myself reading, listening to music, and visiting friends. That means a lot to me. If you’re running your own agency, then time is really not your own.

A: What would you consider to have been your greatest contribution to advertising?
ZY: What I’ve enjoyed doing is training people in creative. It doesn’t mean dictating to them, but basically giving them the freedom to grow. People who come here have very few restrictions imposed on them. They have the liberty to do what they wish to do, and even the liberty to move away totally from the client’s brief and present their own ideas. That is something I enjoy doing and in so doing, perhaps I’ve contributed something to the profession.

Interview conducted by Reema Abbasi.

AURORA: What brought you to advertising?
FARAZ MAQSOOD HAMIDI: We all run into advertising. We don’t think, “Ah, advertising!” Everybody in my family is a banker, but I knew I couldn’t go to work in a suit and that I needed to find alternatives. So I did all kinds of things. I did art school; I did comparative literature at Sorbonne; I did international relations and then business administration (everybody in the eighties did business administration!). I did all that and I was very good, except that I was bored out of my mind. Then in 1989, while studying in Paris, I hit upon the Communication School in Boston. I went to this place called the ‘Ad Lab’, which apparently was the largest student-run agency in New England. And here was this 23-year-old supervisor who says, “If you are someone who enjoys coming up with slogans and writing, you are probably going to be a copywriter and if you enjoy doodling, maybe you’ll be an art director,” and I felt, “Yes, that’s me; that’s my career,” and everything fell into place.

A: It sounds like love at first sight?
FMH: It was and it always is. Every day. I completely inhaled advertising. It gives me an opportunity to be myself; I never thought this would be possible. I’m thankful I discovered advertising. I did a lot of odd things – literature, music, theatre – but the question was: Where do you focus your imagination? I knew it had to be something in the creative arts. And there it was, and it was an amazing discovery.

A: Boredom hasn’t set in yet?
FMH: No, not at all!

A: What was it like coming back to Pakistan and setting up an agency?
FMH: Here was somebody who had never been exposed to the environment in Pakistan, and invariably when you are an expat, you tend to have a rosy picture, an image of this lovely country that is a paradise. When I graduated, I was briefly at an agency called Hill Holliday, and I knew I could do this (advertising) in that environment. But I had no idea about this (Pakistan) environment; it’s a ridiculously challenging environment for all the wrong reasons. But I knew I had to go into advertising and that I would invariably do it in Pakistan because that’s where you can make a difference. If I were to do it in the States, I would just be one of 3,000 people making a very good difference, but then I wouldn’t be able to get that kick. I was 23 years old when I decided to open my own agency, and the only reason I could do that was because I ran into an individual, who is my business partner to this day (Adil Mirza), and who understood the system. So that has been a very interesting marriage of disciplines and the only reason why I can do it. I don’t know if I would be able to do it independently.

A: So in a sense you have insulated yourself?
FMH: Completely. That’s what keeps me alive, keeps me going.

A: How long did you live abroad?
FMH: Twenty-two years, although I was born in Pakistan. My dad was a banker, and every winter we would come back. It was one of those things.

A: What was it like coming back?
FMH: When I came back, to be honest, I thought it would be for a couple of years. Get to know the country; understand the culture. I joined IAL and I remember being put on the PIA account. It was a nice place to be because you got the huge exposure that PIA offers. When I walked into IAL, I noticed that there was so much fear. Fear of the client, of doing great work, of taking a big decision. Now I understand why there was fear. There was fear because there was mediocrity. Our greatest challenge was mediocrity. People were just not open. Okay, it was a different time then. But I knew I had to move on, because if I didn’t, I would become like some of the creatives I saw around me. They would say “mera itnay saal ka experience hai.” But that doesn’t count; you’re only as good as your last ad. I knew I needed to take that step to keep my mind fresh, and having done so is the reason why I’m so relaxed now. I love The D’Hamidi Partnership. I love doing what I do. I love being able to contribute. And we have contributed well.

A: In what way?
FMH: At a time when everybody was being safe, here were two individuals who were prepared to be different. That was how we won the Schon Bank account, which was our first account. We waited for this opportunity, and there were about a zillion agencies pitching with scores of storyboards. And we came in with this one ad; it was rejected and we were told to come again the next day. So we did – with the same ad – and the same thing happened for five consecutive days; we kept going in with the same ad. As far as we were concerned, this was the ad that had to go.

A: Did they not think you were rather thick?
FMH: They thought we were absolutely perverted. They took it eventually; they must have figured there had to be something right about it. Mind you, all the big guns were there. We learnt from that experience that we were very comfortable taking risks; that we had courage. It’s worth mentioning here that at that time (1993/1994), Masood Hashmi was the only individual to offer to release our ads.

A: Courage is important to you?
FMH: Bravery is contagious; the opposite of that would be conformity. When you are happy, when you are confident, you get that into your system and that is how a culture evolves. In our agency, everyone from our computer operators up are confident people. Young men and women who want to go out and make a difference, and thank God for that. As an agency, we do not go out and pitch for clients. We don’t do that because, then, you are the individual standing in line, and the dictating of terms comes from the other side

A: Isn’t that a rather arrogant attitude?
FMH: I don’t think it is arrogance; you’re just guarding your integrity. Because, honestly, you want to go out and give good work, and there is nothing arrogant about that. In fact, that’s real service; you want to do this work, you want to make a difference and when you do that, your clients will make more money. No doubt about that. But we are not going to become part of a “hey, we can do this, this and this” culture. We are not a tick mark agency. We are a small group of individuals dedicated to using advertising as entertainment, which is what an advertisement should be. Mind you, having said that, because you are going to ask me this question later, with our joint venture with Orient, we did pitch, but then you can, because you are in a completely different environment, so you play by the rules of, I suppose, the big guns.

A: Do you subscribe to the view that creative talent is stifled in Pakistan?
FMH: You’ll find the creative mantra written in every agency; you’ll find it written even at Unilever. “Be open, take risks”. But somewhere along the line people give in, and this comes back to courage. Why are you giving in? Remember MNJ in the seventies? You had a creative guy at the top; good work coming out. As recently as the early nineties, you had Circuit: a creative guy at the top. They were coming out with work that was good, respectable. It didn’t offend our sensibilities in any way because there was somebody who cared enough to make that difference and that’s really all that it is. Over here, because you’re a businessman or there is a subcontinental culture when it comes to running a business, especially small and medium-sized businesses (which is what we are internationally), you can’t really drive that kind of ethic or ethos. That’s why a lot of people suffer. I wish they would make talented creative people partners in their agencies.

A: Aren’t most agencies ultimately one-man shows?
FMH: It’s always a one-man show. That’s the unfortunate part. There really can’t be a committee; there is no such thing as a collective vision; it’s got to be a creative dictator. You have got to be somebody who can just get that thing out, because that will become the voice of the agency. But it certainly helps if there are several creative individuals, but there is a hierarchy involved and that hierarchy should be encouraged because it helps good work come through.

A: Is it true that you are against awards?
FMH: Yes. We are not against being rewarded, and my definition of rewarded, for the time being, is just getting stuff out. We have the confidence to know that we are very good… an award won’t let us know that. We know that already. But certainly, when the time comes for us to display our peacock feathers and do the full corporate thing, when marketing comes into play for an agency, then certainly we will enter for awards. Our Mastercard TVC won an award, but it was entered by our client, Standard Chartered Bank. It won the Asia Pacific Award for the financial something or other.

A: When ads fail the creativity test, most agencies blame the client. Do you agree?
FMH: It is never the client’s fault. You are the agent. You are the ambassador of your work and you sell it. And there is a technique to selling. You sell it before the sale even comes up. You sell your reputation first and foremost, and you build a great relationship with the people that you will eventually be calling or selling to. Selling is an awful word, it’s actually communicating. You are communicating about your work. Once you have a trusting relationship then why wouldn’t your counterpart trust you? It’s the way any family works. Trust me and then let me prove it to you. Once they have tasted blood, they will want more of it, and they will keep coming back. That is the only reason why we have been able to keep a level of consistency. But then again, we personally interact with our clients; we personally manage the work.

A: Most agencies would say the same thing.
FMH: In a lot of agencies, and I wouldn’t say the top management, but the front liners, take an interest in a different priority, which is how much is this work going to get me as opposed to how much of this work is going to go out and do? Fortunately, in the D’Hamidi Partnership, both these interests run parallel to each other.

A: What is the nature of your arrangement with Orient McCann? FMH: It’s a joint venture. It means that the enormity of Orient as the largest agency in the country has been put into our service to espouse our brand of creativity for the clients we jointly pitch for. Orient just won their 20th APNS (All Pakistan Newspaper Society) business award. That’s a strong business arm, so why not link up with a strong creative arm and give the client a big hug? That’s the idea.

A: Is your agreement a contract?
FMH: Exactly that. It is for an indefinite period, which means forever, or whatever the deal is. The Mobilink campaign was the first result of this JV, and I’ve learnt a lot in the process. We get massive exposure and at the same time, you manage to put out a certain degree of creativity; it’s been a very interesting experience.

A: What brought D’Hamidi and Orient McCann together?
FMH: Orient has been wooing D’Hamidi since that day at Schon Bank, when they released our first ad. It is a very unlikely partnership, because here you have someone who is very conservative; we are two extremes really. Credit to Orient to want to make this difference. It takes a lot of courage. In some odd way, you might be perceived as admitting your fault, but actually what you are doing is admitting a huge strength, that we are very comfortable moving out and getting a group of people who are able to offer us something which we want more of. It is actually quite logical; in the 10 years we have been around, I distinctly remember Masood (Hashmi) taking us out for lunch and saying “let’s do something.” Except we never knew what to do. Clearly he has his own challenges, because he is heading an agency and we have our challenges. So it worked out and I think that is great. Why reinvent the wheel? I could wait 50 years to become as big as that, but I’m doing it now. It also takes a lot of guts to do this.

A: Does the D’Hamidi Partnership still retain its own exclusive list of clients? FMH: Completely. The D’Hamidi Partnership is The D’ Hamidi Partnership, and we are doing what we do, how we do it, all the way. This is something new that is developing as a parallel. The other day, for instance we were introduced to Unilever, which The D’Hamidi Partnership without affiliations and without the requisite trumpeting would not go for, or do.

A: When you jointly do work for a client, in this case Mobilink, under which agency name does the campaign branding go? FMH: That issue has not even been raised or been made a contention because the relationship is a mature one. As far as we are concerned, the lead agency, which is Orient in this case, carries the name. There are no two ways about it. Then again, there are so many relationships involved with an account of this size: You have Fortune PromoSeven, the Gulf guys who supervise the account regionally in tandem with McCann; Mediaterrania, Orascom’s lead agency whose local shadow is Orient, the service spine of the account; and The D’Hamidi Partnership. So the name has to be Orient because it is the one common factor among us all.

A: What is your long-term vision for the D’Hamidi Partnership?
FMH: To keep doing what we are doing as well as we can, and I’m sure that that will lead the way. And that’s really where I leave it. Yes, we all have our five-year plan and all that, but I don’t know what the next five years will bring. I can give you a stereotypical answer but that would be a disservice to the way that we think. We have lots of plans to be big and beautiful and bold and international. All of that is part of any lad’s dream. But the bottom line is: let’s just get the craft absolutely right, and the craft will dictate where we are going next.

Interview conducted by Mariam Ali Baig

Mehreen Abid Mir: Nutcracker Marketing Solutions was formed in September 2024 in Singapore. It is a creative digital agency with a small setup in Singapore; we also have a nine-member team that operates on a profit-sharing basis from Islamabad. 

Omar Jamil: Latitude CSR is a public relations company based in Lahore; it was established in 2010, and we are internationally affiliated with Grayling. We have expertise in media relations, corporate reputation and advocacy.

UKN: What would you say are the strengths of Nutcracker and Latitude?

OJ: Latitude’s deep-rooted understanding of PR and communications within Pakistan, and Nutcracker’s innovative digital strategies, which have been honed in the competitive Singaporean market. By pooling our strengths, we are poised to deliver more holistic, cutting-edge solutions for our clients. In essence, this collaboration represents a convergence of local insight and global best practices, redefining the creative playbook for brands that want to thrive in today’s fast-paced world.

MAM: We specialise in creating digital campaigns, design and content creation.

UKN: How did this collaboration between Latitude CRS and Nutcracker come about?

OJ: Creative advertising agencies in Pakistan often function in isolated silos, each focusing solely on their particular domain without effectively communicating or collaborating with other key brand-related functions. The result? Brands are unable to harness the full potential of their marketing investments and creative strategies, often falling short of the integrated impact they seek. When I discussed this vision with Mehreen, who shares the same passion for holistic brand solutions, we found ourselves on the same page. Together, we turned that idea into a reality, laying the foundation for a model that promises not only creativity but also coherence and real results for our clients and allows us to provide integrated communications – from public relations and advocacy to performance-driven digital strategies – to our roster of clients.

MAM: We’re thrilled to collaborate with Latitude CRS. This synergy allows us to offer clients a seamless blend of storytelling and strategy, all the way from the first creative spark to high-performance marketing results. It’s a win-win for brands looking to scale authentically and effectively.

UKN: Which challenges does this collaboration address? 

OJ: There is often a disconnect between the creative, brand and PR sides, which is a critical challenge in today’s fast-paced and interconnected business environment. Without a cohesive approach that brings all the essential pieces together – design, public relations, and marketing – brands risk delivering inconsistent or incomplete messages to their audiences. We aim to bring together diverse teams under a single umbrella, fostering collaboration and ensuring that every piece of a brand’s narrative aligns seamlessly with its broader goals.

UKN: How does it benefit the brand?

MAM: In the modern, data-driven business landscape, the success of any creative output is ultimately measured by its return on investment (ROI). We understand that while creativity is crucial, it cannot exist in a vacuum – every campaign must have tangible results that contribute to the overall growth of a brand. This is especially true today, when every rupee spent on marketing needs to deliver a measurable impact, whether that’s in the form of higher engagement, stronger brand recognition, or increased sales. Our integrated approach ensures that campaigns don’t just look good or generate buzz – they are built to convert followers into loyal customers, ensuring that brands get real numbers and real results that can be tracked and analysed.

OJ: This focus on ROI doesn’t mean compromising on creativity; rather, it’s about channelling creativity in a way that aligns with the brand’s commercial objectives. We’re not just here to create campaigns that make people talk for a moment, we’re here to build long-term relationships between brands and their audiences – relationships that drive growth, loyalty, and sustainable success.

UKN: How does the partnership benefit Latitude and Nutcracker?

OJ: This integrated approach benefits both Latitude CRS and Nutcracker Marketing Solutions. For example, if a client needs PR or CSR services, Latitude can take the lead. Conversely, if a Latitude client requires a compelling creative narrative, Nutcracker steps in. This synergy strengthens both our agencies in their respective domains, expands our reach, and helps us attract more clients both locally and internationally.

UKN: What are your future plans?

OJ: Taking advantage of our in-depth cultural and policy knowledge of the Pakistani market, combined with the international creative practices that Mehreen brings in, we look forward to opening fresh avenues for brands to connect, influence, and inspire their consumers, both in Pakistan and abroad.

Hilda attended DJ College and began her career as a microbiologist and college professor. Born and raised a Christian, she married Mazhar Saeed, a Muslim, in 1962, against the wishes of her own and Mazhar’s families. She faced severe pressure from her in-laws and society to convert to Islam but remained steadfast in her commitment to her faith. This experience contributed to her decision to campaign for women’s and minority rights, inter-faith dialogue and harmony. She began her lifelong commitment to activism by opposing separate electorates that would deny minorities the same voting rights as Muslims. She wrote extensively about minority rights at a time of increasing intolerance and physical violence.

In the late seventies, Hilda joined the Sindh government to establish a Forensic Sciences Department. As part of this work, she encountered several rape crimes, including those against children. The volume of violent crimes against women and the state’s apathetic response in the backdrop of General Zia’s Hudood Ordinances (whereby a woman had to have four male eyewitnesses willing to testify she had been raped, failing which she was accused of adultery, a charge punishable by death), moved Hilda deeply and instigated within her a desire to affect change. A friend who worked at DawnMedia’s evening newspaper, The Star, encouraged her to turn these cases into stories that were published regularly.

In 1978, she joined the Shirkat Gah Women’s Resource Centre, a women’s collective and non-profit organisation working on women’s rights. In 1981, along with Shirkat Gah and other human rights activists, Hilda established the Women’s Action Forum, which advocates for women’s rights in Pakistan to this day. She helped take several cases related to unjust accusations against women and members of minority communities to court, and made outstanding contributions in raising awareness about women’s reproductive and sexual health rights through her work as a media practitioner, and by participating in conversations with both community members and government officials. From these efforts emerged the Pakistan Reproductive Health Network, of which she was a founding member, which raised issues related to sexual rights. She also helped establish Panah, a shelter and rehabilitation centre for domestic violence survivors. In this regard, she went on to compile Survivors – Stories from Panah, The True Stories of Women Who Escaped a Life of Domestic Abuse, and a Shelter that Made It Possible published by Oxfam in 2021.

Throughout the eighties, Hilda continued to write about public health in Dawn and other communication channels. In 1983, she established Pakistan’s first public health magazine, National Health, which ran successfully until it closed in the late nineties. She would often say with amusement that people accused her of making National Health a women’s rights magazine because of her focus on reproductive health rights. Hilda is credited with bringing the concept of reproductive health rights to the country’s agenda. She participated in many UN conferences and international forums, including but not limited to, the UN Women’s Conferences and the UN Conference on Population and Development (ICPD) in 1994 as a member of Pakistan’s NGO delegation. Throughout her life, she worked with multiple international organisations, served on boards, and published internationally.

Hila had a sweet, gentle, and fun-loving nature. She loved animals, reading, travelling and spending time with friends and family. She was humble and she never talked about her achievements, letting her work speak for itself. She instilled a love for reading in me and then my daughter, and in many of her friends’ children. Hilda was intrinsically kind, and would without hesitation did whatever she could to help others. She referred countless people in need of medical or legal assistance to doctors and lawyers, and she mentored many young people who came to her for educational and career guidance.

Hilda maintained a lovely home, bringing back decoration pieces and souvenirs from her many travels, often struggling to hand carry heavy and delicate pieces in her usual determined way. She was known for her grace and the elegance with which she carried the saris she loved to wear. Every Christmas, she invited the children of friends and neighbours to decorate her Christmas tree, and always made sure there was a present for each child under the tree. It was not until much later that we realised how valuable this experience was for many children who were decorating a Christmas tree for the first time, and how much they looked forward to this every year.

As her daughter, she encouraged my interest in women’s rights and activism, taking me with her to protests even before I was a teenager, instilling in me a deep sense of the importance of human rights. I was her go-to person whom she asked to read and critique everything she wrote. When I moved overseas in 1996, she taught herself to type and become tech savvy so she could email me every day. She was also an amazing cook, creating innovative dishes with the limited resources available in Pakistan. Once again, I always had the privilege of being the first person to try everything she made. As a grandmother, Hilda’s youthful playfulness shone bright. From when my daughter was a child, Hilda would spend hours doing arts crafts, making kid-friendly meals, watching cartoons, and reading storybooks. This fostered a deep bond and they remained incredibly close for the rest of Hilda’s life.

It is difficult to do justice to Hilda Saeed’s life and legacy in mere words, and even more difficult to accept that she is now mentioned in the past tense. She has left giant shoes that are hard to fill, but again, we will try.

Rahal Saeed is a global health, capacity-building, and gender specialist. rahalsaeed@gmail.com

Adeera Batlay has just completed her BA in Geo-Science and started a teaching position in August. adeera2003@gmail.com

A: Which companies come under the Digitz Group umbrella?
AJK: Four companies form the Digitz Group. Digitz Digitas, which works on digital marketing for multinational companies. Red Cactus, which is a content development and influencer marketing company and works with our local clients. Digitz Software and Technology Development which is dedicated to tech. Station-01 is an incubation centre and allows us to invest in start-ups such as The Garage Sale Company and Khelo Kricket. 

A: How was Digitz financed at the time of its formation? 
AJK: Imtisal and I invested in it initially. We also took a loan from IAL Saatchi & Saatchi with the promise that we would return it, which we did in less than two years.

A: How did you secure your initial client base?
AJK: Imtisal and Zeeshan had started working on Digitz prior to my joining and they had a few clients through IAL, such as P&G and National Foods. After I entered the equation, we started to gain more clients. We essentially started as a social media agency, as this was the main function of a digital agency at the time. Today, Digitz and IAL Saatchi & Saatchi function as two completely different entities, although Imtisal Abbasi and Nida Haider Khan are also directors of the Digitz Group.

“When Digitz was a very new agency, we learned that globally, agencies in general are shifting towards an integrated marketing and communications philosophy, and we are therefore positioning ourselves as an organisation that can provide end-to-end solutions.”

A: Which services does the Digitz Group provide? 
AJK: We are an integrated marketing communications company. On a basic level, we conduct strategy, which entails research and understanding the consumer, our competition and industry trends. This also includes developing brand strategies with regard to how to roll out a campaign or even conceptualise a strategy for new companies. We also provide creative services, which mainly include thinking up big ideas for campaigns in an integrated way, including D/TVCs, activations, social media, influencer marketing or creating a website or a mobile app. We also provide design-related services which include animation among other things. We also do digital media planning and buying based on data-driven strategies, which clients are increasingly asking for. We are also now leaning heavily into providing hard-core technology and backend software-related services.

A: How have the services you provide changed? 
AZK: There has been a drastic change in these as things have evolved at a rapid pace. At the Digitz Group, we realised that the only thing we can master is the ability to adapt to change. When Digitz was a very new agency, we learned that globally, agencies in general are shifting towards an integrated marketing and communications philosophy, and we are therefore positioning ourselves as an organisation that can provide end-to-end solutions. In fact, we ask our clients to think of us as solution providers. 

A: Into which areas is the Digitz Group expanding?
AJK: We are heavily investing in providing software-related solutions. Software has two aspects. The first is called marketing or agency software and involves creating websites and mobile apps and developing marketing strategies, creative campaigns and design/animations – all of which serve a brand purpose. We also work with clients (especially those located overseas) in developing complex software systems. This is the second aspect of software – hard-core engineering software development – which is entirely related to backend systems. These projects are more attractive from a financial point of view. For example, we had an FMCG client who was trying to figure out how to gauge their point of sale customer profile and the options they had were very expensive and they didn’t have the budget for it. We created a customer relationship management (CRM) platform in addition to a loyalty management programme for them. 

A: What changes do you foresee in agencies given the increase of AI? 
AJK: I don’t have a doom-and-gloom approach towards AI. I am very positive about it and I do not believe that it will take away jobs, because the way people think cannot be replaced by AI. However, AI is an important tool that can help us work more efficiently. For example, at one point, colour grading an image would take several hours; now it can be done in five minutes using AI-based software. Zeeshan and I are working on using AI to internally streamline our operations. As for our clients, we have created AI-based products for some of them and plan to continue in this vein, such as creating AI-based chat assistants or AI bots that can help improve customer service. We are also going to create our own influencer marketing tool; we are developing it for in-house use and may market it to other organisations if it is effective. 

A: Which are the memorable campaigns that Digitz has worked on?
AJK: Being a digital agency, the number of campaigns we work on is very high. One that comes to mind is Coke Studio. Their content was amazing, but how Coke Studio became better known had a lot to do with Digitz, in terms of increasing its reach on digital platforms and creating a dedicated fan base. We also did a campaign for L’Oréal after the Covid-19 pandemic began. As many stores were shut down, L’Oréal were unable to sell their products. At the same time, the French president had mentioned the hijab ban and there was a massive movement against L’Oréal products in Pakistan. After conducting a sentiment analysis, we initiated a campaign called ‘Online is Safe’. The campaign communicated two messages. The first was that people should stay home and shop online. The second was that the products available online were genuine and not counterfeit or products that came through grey channels. We also encouraged L’Oréal to ensure that their products were available on more than one digital platform. As a result of the campaign, we reached our sales target within four days instead of the month and a half we had planned. I think it was probably that single campaign that brought a shift in L’Oréal Pakistan’s way of approaching their marketing.

A: Who are your primary clients now?
AJK: In Pakistan, our clients include Lipton, L’Oréal and Kia Motors; I think 70% of our clients are multinationals, although we do have local clients, such as Bisconni, JS Bank and National Foods. We are also working with Tetra Pak in Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, East Africa, West Africa and South Africa in addition to Reckitt in Nigeria and Kenya on the Dettol account. 

“Why do we have to measure creativity by the yardstick of a 30-second TVC? I think creativity can be applied to anything, and we have to think of new ways to be creative. It is more difficult to be creative on digital platforms since we only have five or six seconds to capture the audience’s attention.”

A: What about your international client base?
AJK: We secured a client in Saudi Arabia recently, which is a start-up, and are doing all their digital work. We have a few clients in Canada including a fintech. If there is a certain function that we cannot do ourselves, we bring in a third party to complete it. However, the ideation comes from our end as well as the creative direction and management. We have pitched some creative concepts to them and the campaign may be partially shot in Pakistan and Canada. However, our primary focus is on software development, marketing tech, ad tech and developing products. 

A: Are you now focusing on becoming a 360-degree ‘conventional’ agency with a digital-first attitude?
AJK: I don’t think we should use the word conventional anymore, because irrespective of the medium, content is content and we can help produce it. We are not trying to become a conventional agency; rather we are telling our clients that we have the capability to carry out any function they require. 

A: What are the most dynamic digital platforms when it comes to attracting younger audiences?
AJK: It would have to be TikTok, not only for young people, but also older ones, as everyone is on TikTok now. 

A: Are brands using TikTok effectively? 
AJK: I think the majority of brands have figured out the correct way to use it. This includes using influencers and most brands have their own channels on TikTok. However, TikTok’s power comes from encouraging people to create content for their brands. For example, asking audiences to create videos by taking part in events such as dance challenges. A risky project we took on for L’Oréal was TikTok-based. Earlier, L’Oréal China had started to use TikTok for live selling. We hadn’t tested this practice here but decided to give it a try. The results were amazing, and we won awards for the campaign. We used a host of TikTok influencers for the campaign.

A: How do you rate the importance of influencer marketing?
AJK: We refer to influencer marketing as advocacy and in some cases, it has an even better impact than Google and Meta. 

A: Do you think that audiences now tend to take a more cynical view of influencer marketing?
AJK: Yes and no. I think people, especially the younger generation, can see through it. However, it still works better than placing ads on digital platforms and boosting them – which has become increasingly more expensive. However, ethics are coming into the equation and brands and influencers are starting to state whether a post is paid for or not.

A: Do you think creativity is being compromised on digital platforms?
AJK: Not at all. Why do we have to measure creativity by the yardstick of a 30-second TVC? I think creativity can be applied to anything, and we have to think of new ways to be creative. It is more difficult to be creative on digital platforms since we only have five or six seconds to capture the audience’s attention. I am currently reading The Anxious Generation: How the Great Rewiring of Childhood Is Causing an Epidemic of Mental Illness by Jonathan Haidt. Haidt says that the “great rewiring” took place between 2010 and 2015, after the introduction of the iPhone, 3G and social media platforms, and resulted in shortening people’s attention spans and changing the way they function. As a result, brands are changing the way they engage with audiences. For example, Bose, the sound company, created an amazing 30-second TVC showing people jumping and dancing wearing Bose headphones. However, the response was low due to its duration and they cut it to five to six seconds, showing the product and communicating the message within the first two seconds. This is the way creativity is shaping up, although perhaps I am not the best person to answer this question because I am, at the most basic level, a technologist and a follower of science.  

A: What are the biggest challenges for digital agencies?
AJK: One of the major challenges is hiring and retaining resources. There has been a massive brain drain in Pakistan and young, intelligent, and talented people are either looking for options abroad or opting to go freelance as it is better paid for them. A lot of people think the younger generation is inconsistent in terms of their approach to work, but I think they face a set of challenges that previous generations did not. Their way of thinking is very different. Another challenge is that marketing budgets are being cut. I don’t hold this against clients. However, as a result of this, cash flows have been affected and at times we can’t pay vendors on time because we don’t get paid on time from our clients. However, I think it’s just a matter of time until the economy improves, although the economic scenario has definitely affected the morale of people across the board. 

MMA: What are the Digitz Group’s plans for the future? 
AJK: We will continue to relearn and pivot. Ultimately, we want to go global and create work that can be seen on a global stage. No client or project is big or small. We will continue to position ourselves as solution providers and overcome challenges related to communications, technology and marketing.

Azam Jalal Khan was in conversation with Mamun M. Adil. mamun.adil@gmail.com

S. AKBAR ZAIDI: IBA Karachi was established in 1955 – supported by Wharton (University of Pennsylvania) and subsequently by the University of Southern California, and in the sixties, it started offering degrees in business administration. In 1994, IBA was given autonomous status whereby it was able to give its own degrees – before that, they were given by the University of Karachi. This is when we began to diversify. In 1995, we started a computer science programme and in 1997 a social science programme, and we have expanded ever since. In 2021, the old Institute of Business Administration was reframed as IBA Karachi, and we set up three schools – the School of Business Studies, the School of Mathematics and Computer Science, and the School of Economics and Social Science. And now in 2025, we have just received accreditation from the Association to Advance Collegiate Schools of Business (AACSB). This is a huge quality enhancement certificate that puts IBA Karachi at the level of the 1,035 best universities in the world, including Harvard, London Business School, INSEAD and Stanford Business School. It reflects quality assurance, affirmation and recognition.

A: What are the criteria to receive this accreditation?

SAZ: It is a process that takes three to four years. It means opening the institution to scrutiny and evaluation; whether you are teaching properly, the student-to-teacher ratio, the quality of the faculty and the student body. It means ensuring we reach the standards required for AACSB certification.

A: What are the benefits of this accreditation?

SAZ: It is a game-changer. It is like getting the academic Oscar. It is a recognition of our quality and output. It will allow us to access these 1,035 schools in terms of exchange programmes and curricula and to send our students to better universities and help them get better jobs when they graduate.

A: IBA Karachi recently entered into a collaboration with the Stanford Life Design Lab. What exactly is this programme?

SAZ: Basically, it is about the way one thinks about and addresses problems on a personal and work level. The idea was proposed to us by Junaid Aziz, an IBA alumnus who teaches at the Design Lab in Stanford. I visited the Lab and it is a very strange place. There is no classroom per se and it is very interactive. We have entered into a collaboration with Stanford and in December last year, Bill Burnett, the Executive Director of the Stanford Design Lab and Junaid came to Pakistan to run a number of courses and workshops. Forty-two members of our faculty also took the Design Your Life course online, and this semester we are offering the course to our students. It is about pedagogy and bringing problems to do with the world into the classroom. Basically, it is about the individual, his or her role in society, what matters to them and about thinking about the world in an interactive way. It’s about psychology, marketing, management, problem-solving, reflection and social skills. In a nutshell, it teaches one to deal with the world. Next semester we will offer more classes and take it to the private sector; a number of companies have expressed an interest in the course.

A: Given how quickly the world is changing, what are the subjects that interest IBA students the most?

SAZ: Our computer science department and faculty is very, very good. They are doing robotics and AI amongst other things. Two years ago, we started a data analytics programme. There is a huge demand for data analytics and we are now starting a course called business analytics – how businesses are run and how to think about them in terms of the future. Of course, all marketing, management and accounting courses have an AI component in them. We are integrating technology in almost every course. Take history for example; what is a digital archive? We are also hoping to start a course on digital humanities. The other popular programme is psychology. Dozens and dozens of students want to study psychology. To answer your question, AI, data analytics, business analytics and psychology are the new emerging fields at IBA.

A: Why the interest in psychology?

SAZ: Anxiety and stress have become a big concern among kids these days. Three years ago, we started a wellness centre at IBA with trained therapists, psychologists and a psychiatrist who sit on campus. Students go there with issues about their domestic situations; about their parents, their fears and apprehensions. Covid has also contributed to their anxieties – and this continues to be a global problem. Then there are concerns related to climate change. There is a lot more anxiety than there was before. This is an anxious generation and our students are also part of that. They want to understand what is happening and psychology offers an opportunity to do so. In August, we are starting a Master’s in psychology – the undergraduate programme is not enough and people say we want to delve further in order to understand and to cope. Pursuing the degree may not help you solve problems, but it helps to understand what the problems are.

A: How does IBA manage to keep up-to-date with the pace of change that underpins anything to do with AI? Can you even set a course outline that remains relevant for the entire academic year?

SAZ: Everything is affected by AI; our textbooks are becoming less and less useful. No one writes a book on the internet anymore; everything has changed before you end chapter one. I don’t think any university in Pakistan, or in many other places in the world for that matter, is current in terms of what is happening – even the Ivy League universities. The question is how quickly we can catch up. In Pakistan, we are obviously not going to be at the level of a lot of the very good universities.

A:Why not?

SAZ: Pakistan does not have the infrastructure. We are not even on X. We are way behind. A recent global internet survey puts Pakistan as one of the worst countries in the world for internet access. India, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka and Nepal are way ahead. I don’t think we will ever get to a stage where we are where Singapore or Malaysia or Turkey are. Or where many countries in the Global South are – and certainly not where India is. One of the reasons we will always be behind is because of the ecosphere we work in. We are not internet-friendly. The Middle Eastern countries, despite censorship, are doing much better because they realise that this is where the world needs to go. That technology is going to drive the world. As a country we are not doing enough – science and technology are hardly recognised.

A: Looking to the future, what should IBA Karachi be striving for?

SAZ: Better quality education. We are very good, but we can and should improve.

A: How?

SAZ: Better faculty members who can ensure our students are qualified to get into the best universities in the world. As a primarily undergraduate university, our goal must be to ensure that our students get admission to the best universities of the world. Our students are getting into Oxford, Cambridge, Berkeley, Stanford or Princeton – something that was not happening earlier. Young Pakistanis are striving to do better so that they can get admission abroad and this trend is going to continue. Furthermore, now that we are AACSB accredited, we should be able to take IBA global, and I am very particular about internationalisation. We hired seven foreign faculty members in the last year. They live and teach here; it’s not online. I want to attract better faculty with more exposure. People who are dealing with issues such as AI and climate change at a much more practical and advanced level, and I want that knowledge to come here and be given to our students. We also need to expand our infrastructure. I am here only for another two-and a-half years; my second tenure comes to an end in 2027, and someone else will have to take that over. The idea is to make IBA larger. The ambition is better quality students, better quality output, better quality teaching, better quality faculty, and better quality infrastructure.

A: Is there an ambition to expand within Pakistan?

SAZ: I don’t think that is a good idea. Karachi has 30 million people, and we can only take in 1,200 students a year. People go to Harvard and Princeton from all over the world, and if we are of that quality, people will come from all over the world to us. Harvard is not going anywhere. NYU went to Singapore, Yale went to Singapore and the Middle East and closed down. My ambition is to make the IBA an even better university and let people come here. We get students from Gilgit-Baltistan, Sindh and Balochistan. Our financial aid to students is about one billion rupees a year, which is phenomenal. About 30% of our students receive financial aid. We can expand that. We need to do all this better and more in tune and integrate with the world.

A: How is IBA supported financially?

SAZ: IBA has its own finances. It comes from the students, our endowment fund and contributions from our alumni. We also receive some money from the Sindh government. We are a public sector university, and a lot of people forget that. In fact, IBA Karachi is a very good example of how the public sector can work. We have our own board of governors. The chief minister is our patron – he is the head of all universities in Sindh – but we are not dependent on the Sindh government financially. One reason why IBA does so well is because it is financially autonomous.

A: Does IBA have a vice chancellor?

SAZ: I am the vice chancellor.

A: You are appointed by the government?

SAZ: I am. I was selected through an ad process.

A: Recently, the media reported that the government was considering appointing vice chancellors drawn from the bureaucracy rather than academia. What is the rationale behind this?

SAZ: The quality of education in Pakistan is very poor, even at a higher level. There are 264 universities in Pakistan, of which maybe 15 or 20 are good, a lot of them are average and most of them should be closed down. They were established for political reasons… “I need one in my district. I need one in my constituency,” and so forth. There is a crisis of leadership in the universities. I think the governments in Sindh, Punjab and Khyber Pakhtunkhwa believe that administrators and civil servants are better trained and more competent to run the universities. I don’t think that is the case, but I also think there is a crisis in academia. We don’t have good academics who can lead universities, and this is a problem that needs to be addressed by attracting better academics from abroad or from Pakistan and giving them autonomy. A lot of good academics don’t want to run universities; they prefer to concentrate on their research.

A: Do you see the quality of higher academia in Pakistan going down or up?

SAZ: Very much down.

A: Why?

SAZ: One, the universities are not autonomous financially or intellectually or in terms of what they would like to do. Two, of the 264 universities we have, many don’t have good quality facilities or faculty. There is a major crisis in higher education in Pakistan like there is in primary and secondary education. Most universities are dependent on the Higher Education Commission, and the federal and provincial governments. Only a handful of universities, such as IBA Karachi, Dow Medical College, FAST, NED, NUST and UET in Lahore, are financially autonomous although they are public sector universities, and they are run on professional lines and offer quality education. However, they cannot cater to the millions who want to enrol and this is why I am talking about expansion. The solution lies not in creating more universities but in concentrating on quality, merit and autonomy. Let’s fix the universities that we have; support and expand them and offer better education.

See Bringing the Deep Logic of Design Thinking to the Inner Lives of Individuals

Dr S. Akbar Zaidi was in conversation with Mariam Ali Baig. For feedback: aurora@dawn.com

If I think about it, raising my daughter and running an ad agency are similar in a lot of ways, and each role has sharpened my skills and honed my instincts for the other role.

As I write this, I have 42 unread WhatsApp messages, half from work and the other half from school mums and class groups, two work deadlines, one solar system project (due tomorrow) and a juice-stained permission slip waiting to be signed in my handbag. Just this morning, I briefed my team on a new creative campaign while simultaneously organising a post-school playdate (with a bonus craft activity) at my house. I have added ‘Circus-level juggler’ to my CV and live with the fact that my brain will always have multiple tabs open at the same time. Motherhood has made multitasking a required survival skill.

“I need to be dressed as my favourite fictional character for school tomorrow” said Amani to me at 11 p.m. the night before her school’s book parade. Motherhood has trained me to expect the unexpected and adapt to impossible deadlines with the same cocky confidence my husband displays when assembling a dollhouse without needing instructions. It’s the art of someone who knows it’s either a do-or-die situation. So when I get hit with “Oh, I forgot to tell you, the board meeting is tomorrow and we need a full strategic plan for our brand for the year by nine a.m.” or “Any chance we can get the positioning in two days?” from a client, I do what any card-carrying member of the sisterhood of mothers would do – just tighten my ponytail, grab a carb-filled snack and handle it.

Mums and agency folks don’t just listen to feedback – we learn to decode it. We decipher the indecipherable much like the over-caffeinated Gen Z hackers shown punching away at their keyboards in Hollywood movies. We learn to read body language, watch for eye dilation and lip twitches, re-examine hand gestures and look out for what has not been said. Whether it’s “I want this tagline to be punchier” or “I want to wear the blue thing I wore to that place where the music was too loud and the floor was dirty” we are masters at deciphering fuzzy comments and emerging with magical clarity. My husband, who just blinks at her like he’s buffering while trying to process such demands, is often rendered speechless with admiration at my knack for interpreting the uninterpretable demands of a seven-year-old child.

Sometimes the thermometer says normal but my gut tells me to keep Amani from going to school the next day. I also know when “I’m not hungry” will become “I’m staaarrrrving” within minutes. When “I’m fine” is about to be followed by an outburst of uncontrollable tears. We mums have a secret superpower – our hyper-tuned, constantly nagging gut instincts. At work, I call upon this instinct every time I approach a brand strategy. It doesn’t matter what the data suggests or what the consumer research says – if it doesn’t feel right in my gut, it is most often not the right way to go.

If anyone has navigated a child’s meltdown in a public space, congratulations – you now have a degree in crisis management. You learn to stay calm under pressure, to make split-second decisions and to always have a contingency plan. Motherhood doesn’t just teach you to manage a crisis, it shows you rapid response techniques, spin control and UN-level diplomacy.

For all these reasons and more, I think motherhood should be renamed “Executive Leadership.” From tantrums to timelines, meltdowns to meetings we mums can handle the chaos of every day with a side of sass and a smile that says “I’m a mum and I’ve got this.”

Nida Haider is Managing Partner, IAL Saatchi & Saatchi. nida.h@ialsaatchi.com

AMAFAH MUBASHIR: That is a tough question because wellness is so expansive. I think for me it means being in tune with my body – if this means sleeping a few extra hours on some days or sitting with my girlfriends and venting, that is wellness for me. It can also mean being on my own and just painting – whatever makes me feel good in a healthy way.

SK: How did your wellness journey begin?

AM: I became a yoga instructor about 10 years ago. When I was an art student, I had super unhealthy habits, meaning that I would equate my worth to how much I produced. I was caught up in a rat race, to the point where I was bragging about how little I slept and forgetting to eat because I was so engrossed in my work. After graduating, I went into advertising, and from a wellness perspective, advertising is the worst industry to be in. Don’t get me wrong, it was exhilarating and a lot of fun. I lived for the adrenaline rush, but it was extremely fast-paced and high powered. Our entire lives were confined to the office, and my first meal of the day was a cigarette and a coffee. After a while, the nuances of advertising started to get to me, and one day, it dawned on me that I was really just selling milk to people – and I thought to myself, “What am I doing that is of substance or actually makes a difference?” I am not trying to purport that I’m making a difference by teaching yoga, but it is so much more fulfilling.

SK: How did you move into yoga?

AM: I started taking yoga classes in an effort to mend my relationship with my body. In those days there were only a handful of studios. My introduction was through an Instagram ad, and it was love from the first class I took. It was amazing. I was able to switch my mind off for an hour, something I had never done before. My body felt good, and I was sleeping better. Then the feeling of wanting to be at the yoga studio and not at work began to gnaw at me. I needed to go to my yoga class twice a week to stay sane, and at work I was dreaming about doing yoga in the mountains. I finally took the plunge and quit my job, or tried to. I started working part-time and went to Thailand for my yoga training. When I came back, that feeling had only intensified. I was met with a lot of opposition: “Are you crazy? You want to leave this career to become a yoga teacher?” Six months later, I quit completely and became a yoga instructor.

SK: How did your training affect you?

AM: It was the first time in my life that I was on my own and allowed to be whoever I chose to be in that moment. When you grow up in a place like Karachi, there is a lot of attachment to the person you are, and it’s difficult to break out of that personality. At the retreat, they make you examine all the different facets that mirror who you are: the good and the bad. And it is hard to look at yourself and say, I love this part of myself, but not that part – and yet I should love that part of myself as well.

SK: How did that self-reflection change you?

AM: It changed the way I perceived spirituality, religion and God. I believe our relationship with faith mirrors our relationship with ourselves. When I was sitting by myself and allowing myself to connect with the shadows and light within me on a beach in Thailand, I felt so connected to God and to the idea of a higher power – and that love was just flowing through me.

SK: What were your early days as a yoga practitioner like?

AM: When I started, I barely had three people in my class, which was to be expected as I was new in the wellness circle. Also in those days, fitness boot camps were the trend. However, I told myself I would persevere even if I didn’t have enough students; I would keep at this until it worked out.

SK: What led you to establish Asana Wellness?

AM: I think every yoga instructor dreams of having their own space because it becomes a reflection of who you are, and you want to create that energy for your community. Everyone around me thought my love for yoga would be a fleeting passion and I would go back to advertising. But in my heart, I knew yoga was it for me. I tried to set up a studio several times, but the universe would put a halt to these plans in some way, and I took it as a sign that it was not the right time, so I persevered by building Amafah’s Asanas on social media, and that was where Asana Wellness started to bloom.

SK: What does Asana Wellness offer?

AM: We offer holistic wellness; a lot of classes, primarily yoga but also dance, low-impact workouts, sound bowl meditation, voice meditation and breathwork, as well as sensuality and couple’s workshops. However, first and foremost, my ethos for this space is building community. Apart from the yoga studio, we have a therapist’s office with a private entrance so therapists can rent the space and meet their clients in complete privacy. There is also a training room for budding yoga teachers, something I wish I had access to when I first started out.

SK: What are your views on the commodification of wellness?

AM: A lot of us give our energy, our time and our space as energy healers, yoga and fitness instructors and Reiki practitioners. For a lot of us this is our primary means of income. You can spend Rs 10,000 on a yoga studio membership or on an outfit – the choice is yours.

SK: What does wellness look like for people who don’t have access to it?

AM: I feel that for people who come to the city for work, their one month holiday back home is their wellness time. As I said, wellness looks different for everyone. However, I believe that if people are taught basic techniques, they can incorporate those practices into their daily lives. Meditation requires no equipment and nothing but time.

For feedback: aurora@dawn.com

UKN: What prompted you to set up a voice acting training centre?
HH: I realised that there was no dedicated training institute where aspiring professionals could learn the craft of voice acting. Although many individuals have the talent and the potential, they often lack the required guidance to help them advance their careers in this field. At Media Menderz, we are driven by three core missions: to create awareness about the power of vocals; to help individuals become more expressive; and to expand the voice-over and dubbing segment by nurturing talent and providing people with opportunities. A common misconception is that a good voice is acquired naturally, but that is not the case. Most people can be trained to excel in dubbing and voice-overs – be it singing or acting. One of our goals is to demonstrate how everyday speech patterns are shaped by a person’s experiences. For example, people’s professions influence the way they speak – customer service professionals tend to speak in soft and polite tones, salespeople often speak quickly, and teachers generally project high-pitched voices. Backgrounds, personalities, and professions all impact vocal expression – and although we pay attention to our physical appearance, we often overlook the significance of our voices. At Media Menderz, we emphasise that no matter what career path you choose, your voice is a vital aspect of your personality – and with proper training, it can be refined and enhanced.

UKN: What is your background in this field?
HH: I have been involved in dubbing and voice-over projects for almost 15 years. I started as a dubbing artist for a character in the Turkish drama Mera Sultan and my major breakthrough voice role was in Kosem Sultan, as the lead voice actor for the character of Ahmet Sultan. I have also done many commercials and I am the ‘voice’ for multiple brands. I have worked in radio as well.

UKN: What was the biggest lesson that you learnt from your experience in voice acting?
HH: That without proper training, a voice-over artist remains a ‘mechanical’ performer – improving through practice rather than an understanding of vocal techniques. I learnt that although my voice pitch and delivery were improving, I lacked the technical insight to understand what was driving that improvement. For instance, the way we speak can be modified by using the voice resonators that are located in various parts of our bodies, be it the nose, chest or abdomen. Resonance is what gives the voice a rich, full quality, and it is shaped by vibrations in these areas. Interestingly, 90% of people rely on their throat to speak, unaware that the chest and abdomen play a crucial role in voice projection and resonance. These are just some of the things we teach in our classes.

UKN: Are you the primary trainer at Media Menderz?
HH: Yes, in addition to guest speakers with experience in dubbing and voice-over projects. So far, we have trained more than 50 people and currently 60 students are enrolled in our classes.

UKN: What training modules do you offer?
HH: We offer a three-month basic course which is held over weekends and comprises 24 two-hour classes. The course focuses on improving vocal skills and helps students understand how their voices can be used for dramas, narration, commercials, and animation. Our advanced course is a six-month programme to help students gain an in depth understanding of dubbing and voice-over techniques.

Our courses also focus on other functions, such as subtitling, script writing and editing. Through these courses, our students gain exposure, build their portfolio and develop a strong foundation in voice acting and production. We also offer courses to children aged from six to 15 to help them be more expressive. This is important because, given the amount of time that Gen Alpha spends on their phones, they have become socially withdrawn, and although they excel in understanding technology and using their minds, they often struggle with basic communication skills when it comes to face-to-face interaction.

UKN: What is the fee structure for your courses?
HH: We charge Rs 12,000 per month for both the basic and advanced courses. For children, it is Rs 10,000 per month. Within these fee structures, in addition to on-site training, we also organise visits to production houses, and guest lectures by senior dubbing and voice-over artists.

UKN: How have you promoted Media Menderz?
HH: We are focusing on social media, including Instagram and Facebook, as well as word-of mouth. We also organise free workshops to help potential students understand what our courses offer – we plan to hold workshops at schools, colleges and universities as well.

UKN: Do you facilitate your students in acquiring dubbing and voice-over projects after they complete their course?
HH: Definitely. Having been in this industry for so long, I am well-connected with production houses, and they are always looking for new voices. Once our students have completed their training, we arrange auditions for them at production houses, and many of them have already embarked on careers as voice-over artists.

UKN: What is the future of voice-over and dubbing
in Pakistan?
HH: Although it has grown with time, it remains largely untapped, and until 2010, dubbing was virtually non existent. However, today, eight to 10 production houses are working on projects that require dubbing and voice acting – as do channels that air dubbed content, such as Green Entertainment, Geo Entertainment, Hum TV and Aan TV. Korean, French and Spanish content present major opportunities in the voice over and dubbing business, although at the moment, the bulk of dubbing work revolves around Turkish content, followed by cartoons. The Kids Zone channel, for instance, solely airs content that has been dubbed in Urdu.

UKN: What are your future plans?
HH: We plan to open multiple branches in Karachi in addition to Islamabad and Lahore, as we have received positive feedback from these cities.

For feedback: aurora@dawn.com

ANUM AKHAI: I joined Martin Dow in 2018 as executive director in the business development department. The department is the growth engine of the entity as all the new products we bring in, whether for the local or the international market, are driven from there. It was a great learning opportunity as the department deals with a lot of internal and external stakeholders; R&D, supply chain, regulatory, finance and so on. I then became the group director of business growth and strategy, and now serve as chief growth officer. I am on the board of the company and work closely with our chairman and CEO on growth strategy, overseeing diversification, acquisitions, divestments and portfolio development. In October 2023, after analysing global and local trends, we recognised that this was the right time to launch a new entity under the Martin Dow Group. The initiative focused on building a portfolio centred on Health OTC (HOTC) such as supplements and insect repellents; non-prescription consumer products that are preventative and proactive. In April 2024, we introduced Welnox.

SK: Why was 2024 considered to be the right time to launch Welnox? How does the brand aim to make “wellness a joyful, every day journey”, as stated in its mission statement?

AA: Welnox stands for barrier-free wellness. The W logo symbolises our core values and our three pillars. The first represents holistic wellbeing, ensuring that every product and our work environment contribute to overall societal wellness. The second, innovative excellence, reflects our commitment to quality – we have introduced unique formulations and convenient delivery formats not widely available in Pakistan, often entering the underserved segments. The third pillar, empowering lives, reflects why Welnox was launched post-Covid. In a country like Pakistan, many health issues can be prevented with a proactive holistic approach to wellbeing – physical, emotional, psychological and financial. Preventive care reduces the need for reactive treatments, and Covid highlighted the urgent need for greater wellness awareness and access. The impact of the pandemic might have been less severe had there been more awareness of – and access to – wellness products. This is why proactive health management is central to our mission. We promote wellbeing through sessions on physical, financial and emotional health. These sessions provide valuable insights, followed by actionable steps, such as inviting banking experts after financial wellbeing sessions to help employees navigate investments. We launched ‘Eves’ – a six-month programme for working women between 28 and 36 who are navigating key life transitions like marriage or motherhood, helping them to assess their career progress and options. We introduced ‘She Returns’ for women re-entering the workforce, offering project-based work with the potential for permanent positions.

SK: What product categories fall under Welnox and which ones are the most popular?

AA: In order to build a strong financial foundation, Welnox acquired the established pain management product Wintogeno and introduced two new products: VintoMaxx cream for muscle fatigue and Vintojet spray for targeted relief. In addition to pain management, we offer products across seven categories: coughs and colds, digestive wellness, personal care, burn and wound care, supplements, health and hygiene, and kids care. In personal care, we launched Shedd, a mosquito repellent suitable for infants and pregnant and breastfeeding women. We are also developing an OTC burn and wound product from a unique honey extract and expanding our personal care portfolio.

SK: Are the raw materials local or imported, and are the formulations locally developed? What quality control measures are in place?

AA: We prioritise local sourcing when the materials and packaging meet our quality standards. R&D for most formulations is done in Pakistan. For pharmaceutical and nutraceutical products (derived from food sources but extending benefits beyond basic nutrition), we adhere to strict quality standards and follow R&D-set manufacturing guidelines. Our medical, compliance, business development, marketing and supply chain teams participate in product pitch meetings to evaluate international reference products, focusing on local adaptation, market demand and financial viability.

SK: How does Welnox incorporate sustainability into its product packaging and sourcing?

AA: Sustainability depends on the product, but we prioritise recyclable packaging and local raw materials where possible, without compromising on quality. For safety-critical products like Shedd, we use specialised materials like Merck Germany’s patented ingredient. We have also integrated solar power in manufacturing to reduce our carbon footprint.

SK: Are these products OTC?

AA: They are OTC and HOTC non-prescription products, available at pharmacies and at major retail stores and supermarkets. Globally, they don’t require prescriptions, and the same applies here.

SK: Who is your target audience?

AA: Our primary audience is individuals aged 40 and below. They are more aware of wellness and more proactive about their health and often influence the older generations. Previously, wellness products were either unavailable in Pakistan or imported and priced beyond the reach of the average consumer. The target audience varies from category to category. For example, in pain management, we brought in a legacy product – Wintogeno – that was previously earmarked for the 45+ age group. We brought in variants that targeted young, on-the-go consumers, ensuring that our pain management portfolio has something for everyone. In the next stage, we will focus on expanding our geographical reach. We are committed to making wellness accessible and affordable to the average consumer. Some products, like single-pack cough lozenges at Rs 10, target SECs B and C, while others cater to SECs A and B. We are working in a third world country and we need to work within the ecosystem while maintaining financial viability.

SK: How do you see the competitive landscape of wellness products in Pakistan evolving and how does Welnox differentiate itself from them?

AA: Many major players in the market are globally recognised, but they are not locally grown and often cater to upper SECs. As a Pakistani-grown brand, Martin Dow is focused on serving the local population and prioritising wellness – an area often overlooked even by locally grown entities. We have identified key market gaps where we can make a meaningful impact. What sets us apart is our product quality, focus on wellness awareness and convenient delivery formats.

SK: How do you promote Welnox?

AA: Our strategy varies by product, audience and sales goals. Mass-market items rely on OOH advertising, while specialised products, like supplements, need targeted launches involving events with influencers, chemists, distributors, retailers and pharmacy chains. We typically use two to three media channels, with digital as a constant across all campaigns and support many products with on-ground activities to boost awareness.

SK: How do you see the future of Welnox in Pakistan? Are there any new products or product categories in the pipeline?

AA: Welnox is the MD’s priority and we are focused on filling a market gap. Our data-driven approach will help us assess product acceptance, manufacturing sustainability, and supply chain profitability. In terms of portfolio enhancement, we are going back to our roots of natural and herbal ingredients like ashwagandha, shilajit, aloe vera and herbal extracts. While the delivery form is still being decided, we are developing a range of prebiotics, probiotics, and postbiotics for proactive care.

For feedback: aurora@dawn.com

Marjoram in Pakistan? Yes. Along with wild thyme, juniper, rosehip and sea buckthorn.

We know so little about our country and the array of seasonal produce that is available – most ingredients remain on the fringes of the food chain. To learn about this, I set myself a goal. To organise culinary retreats and learn about the ingredients in Pakistan and, as a result, learn about the correlation of seasonality and geography. When this idea was just a seed in my mind, I often asked myself: Where do I start?

I often shared my vision with like-minded people at dinner tables. This one time, I got lucky and spoke to a young aspiring entrepreneur, Sobia, who had just begun operating a lodge in Gulmit, in upper Hunza. We decided to give it a go. A classic case of ‘let’s mess around and find out’.

Hunza was this elusive place in my mind, primarily because I had not been there before. I had only seen striking images and heard ample stories of wonder. I felt the excitement building up.

So in August 2023, I packed up and commenced my journey from down south below the sea level to the north.

I had visited other mountain regions in Pakistan before: Swat, Mansehra and even Chitral (upper Chitral too), so I was under the preconception that I had seen mountains in Pakistan. Boy, was I wrong.

The gargantuan scale of the Karakoram range hits you at every meandering turn of the highway. There are moments of your day when you are standing by the river and the enormity of the place strikes you. It’s a humbling experience to feel like a speck in real-time.

So, what happens at the culinary retreat? The idea is to understand a specific terrain, examine what ingredients are available, use that information and distil it to form a menu. This allows me, as a cook, along with the guests, to be locked into the here and now. You are signing up to experience the culinary prowess of nature in northern Pakistan expressed through the hands of a cook. Nature is the greatest artist; we are merely vessels piecing the puzzle together.

The retreats span five days, with activities planned around getting together by the table and nourishing ourselves. We visit farms, orchards, lakes and local artisans. There is even a cooking class on one of the days!

Currently, I am in Karachi. Sitting under the faded March sun, reflecting on the fleeting experience, which I am grateful to have curated four times since it all began.

What does a day in my life organising these retreats look like?

Well, I go a few days in advance so I can start preparation. I meet farmers and scout orchards to optimise the experience for my guests. The idea is to get a feel for the season before I start any planning. It’s a primordial soup of ideas cooking up in my mind until I sit down and start writing the menus, purchase lists and prep lists.

I usually make a trip down to the market in Aliabad to secure all my grocery essentials. I stock up, feed my sourdough starter and brainstorm recipe ideas. Most of the good ideas come at the last minute when I least expect them. I also go down the river at the lodge to meditate and check the temperature of the river water to plan potential cold plunge activities. I don’t want to bore you with all the mundane details, but I would like to mention snapshots from the different seasons.

Post Spring: Imagine walking in an orchard and seeing plump red cherry clusters dangling under the soft sun. I felt a childlike wonder; they looked like polished rubies hanging from the tree.

We picked up several cherries in our tote bags and took them back to the kitchen. After removing the seeds, I used the cherries to make a bright compote. Here is the recipe.

Pitted cherries: 500 grams. Sugar: 100 grams. Cornstarch: 30 grams. Mix all the ingredients above in a cold saucepan and bring up the heat gradually. Add the ingredients below after the cornstarch has thickened. Lemon/fruit vinegar: one to two tablespoons and a pinch of salt. The cherry compote can be used for breakfast, cakes, pastries and other desserts.

I used the compote to make a cake inspired by the cherry orchard. I let the cherry compote ferment slightly so it had a deeper character and funk. I soaked a chocolate sponge with some bitter coffee and layered it with the fermented cherry compote and whipped cream. I gave it a rough finish and dotted beautiful cherries on top. You can see her in the picture above.

Summer: Picture sunburst red plums and juicy orange-blushed apricots growing sweet on trees in the summer heat. They taste like nothing I have tasted before. There is something magical about plucking fresh fruit, sinking your teeth in and letting the juice drip down your chin – savouring every bite. I used those apricots and plums to make cakes, crepes and even a sauce to accompany yak steaks.

One of my favourites from this season was the apricot and sea buckthorn tart. I used a buttery tart shell, blind-baked it until crisp and golden, piped in a vanilla bean custard and topped it with apricots macerated with sugar and sea buckthorn. The sugar gave the apricots a light glaze. It was the perfect summer dessert.

Fall: Hunza in October feels like a warm hug. The leaves start to change colour and the sunlight has a tangerine tinge. It feels like you are living inside a Hayao Miyazaki film. Crisp apples ripen on trees as far as the eye can see. Big, bright and orange pumpkins also rest gently on soft earth.

I made many fall-inspired dishes, which included pumpkin focaccia, pumpkin soup with kuruth (dried mountain cheese), apple pie and tarte tatin. The culinary retreat is a wholesome experience and I have barely scratched the surface on what goes down. You just gotta be there to truly know.

This is just a snapshot.

Dear reader, I hope you can join in someday and witness the magic.

Asad Monga is a chef, forager and videographer.

MAHNOOR REHMAN: I am an O Level student based in Islamabad, as well as the CEO and founder of BSF Inc. I started BSF about two years ago when I participated in the Enterprise Challenge Pakistan, and I was selected for the regional finals. I flew to Karachi with one of my teachers and presented my idea. They liked it and I was the second runner-up. I then started to receive funding for my project, which converts food waste into sustainable chicken feed. This allowed me to establish my company.

SM: What were your motivations and your reasoning for your project?

MR: Our objective at ECP is to pitch business ideas which focus on positive social and environmental impact. We had to come up with a sustainable idea. I thought back about when I used to go to the market with my dad in Rawalpindi, and I saw a lot of food waste there. To tackle this problem, I had the idea of collecting food waste and feeding it to black soldier fly larvae. This would eradicate the problem of food waste, and the by-product – larvae – could be used as chicken feed.

SM: How did it feel to receive the King’s Trusts’ International Award, and how did you benefit from it?

MR: When I got to know that I won this award, I was really excited and surprised. I didn’t have any idea when I started the project that it would lead to such an amazing outcome. When I received it, I was nervous about what I was going to say. Receiving it has increased my reach; I’ve got to know more people and made new connections.

SM: Do you think we need more such initiatives in Pakistan to create more awareness?

MR: A lot of awareness is being spread in schools now. There are many programmes and campaigns that kids want to do themselves. But one thing that stops us is support. We don’t always get it from our family members or our peers. With the right support, we can go really far. There is a lot of potential coming from young people. We can do it.

SM: What small changes can be implemented to enhance sustainability?

MR: During Ramzan, I tried not to have an extravagant iftar. I mean, have a simple iftar, eat simple food, because otherwise we generate a lot of leftovers and wastage. For Eid, we don’t need to buy new and expensive clothes that we wear only once and may never touch again. Spend wisely. Take care of your income.

SM: To what extent has your education steered you towards your ideas around sustainability?

MR: I used to spend nights researching about how to make low-waste products, where to get them made, and what to do with them – and although I did this alone, the schools I attended, the teachers I had, and the friends I made, have all played a big role in this. They supported me throughout. At school, there were a lot of campaigns and special lessons regarding sustainability and environmentally friendly practices. My parents know a lot about the importance of sustainability, and they passed that information down to me. Their influence led me to my ideas.

SM: What plans are you thinking about?

MR: I plan to produce another product, which is chitosan. It is extracted from cocoons and made from the first stage of larvae from the shell of crustaceans, and is used a lot by pharmaceutical companies. So, it’s a very big industry. I plan on taking it to a global level, so that it can be produced everywhere. I also want to take the decomposition of food waste to more developing countries and teach them the process of decomposition, and provide the tools to do it. I am also planning to open a football club for girls in Pakistan; I want to play football as well.

SM: What would you say to the people who are watching you and learning about sustainability?

MR: I would say work on innovative ideas. Do something for Pakistan. Only we can do this. So, take risks. Work hard. Just take the first step and you will move forward. God will help you. You just need to take the first step.

Enterprise Challenge Pakistan is a King’s Trust International initiative in partnership with SEED Ventures aimed at inspiring an entrepreneurial spirit among students between 14 and 18.